Comments on: 16th Street Mall Plan

By: Dirk Gently

Dirk Gently — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:51:00 +0000

Good point, Allen: while the addition of a Target or some such would benefit the people who live Downtown, it's not really viable or necessary to put in high end stores to make it a "destination" shopping experience along those lines. Instead, it might be better (although much harder) to try to put in things that really emphasize Denver, rather than yet more chain stores. The Rockmount is pretty much the epitome of what I have in mind. To this end, there's nothing inherently wrong with souvenir stores, they just have to be less tacky.

In short: shops downtown should cater to a mix of local and tourist needs, and these CAN be integrated in interesting ways.

Street cars would be great, but probably cost too much. Further, the granite is costly, slippery, and too grey in an already gray urban area. Why not flagstone or similar? It's more indicative of the area, is more brightly colored, has better surface, and while much less durable also much cheaper.

By: Allen

Allen — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:05:00 +0000

How much would a street car cost?

And why the focus on retail on 16th? Who actually makes a point of traveling to downtown to shop? I live 2 miles away and I don't. The vacancy rates for retail are high because the demand is not there. The new focus of 16th st. mall should be things that work, not continuing to try putting a square peg in a round hole and pretending that somehow we're going to get Target, Pier One, Crate & Barrel, and a slew of other retailers to open up shop.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 02:37:00 +0000

I am here to agree with above posts on several points:
1. granite pavers are worth salvaging, and help the overall design to serve its purpose, even if they do have maintenance issues.
2. the granite and the mall at large would be better served by a streetcar system. A very $$ and ambitious plan.
3. most importantly, something needs to be done to help the 16th St mall thrive. it is the backbone of urban Denver, yet during a walk down many blocks all you see at street level is little more than vacant lots and souvenir stores. it feels stuck in another era, when downtown Denver was not what it is now. In order for Downtown to 'take the next step', it needs 16th to mature into a viable alternate to shopping & entertainment in other neighborhoods such as Cherry Creek. 16th seems poised to do this, with the population growth during recent decades & a clean and vibrant downtown. Who can make this happen??

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:21:00 +0000

I've always thought that the mall needed more hip/trendy name brand stores.

None of this hot-topic nonsense. We need sotres that will bring in the younger mid 20's crowd.

I've always thought an abercrombie and fitch would be great.

any other ideas on this?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:42:00 +0000

as much as i love light rail / street cars...it would be a waste to install these on the mall instead of investing that money elsewhere in NEW transit corridors in the city.

the DT shuttle works quite well, even better if the following changes were made:

- signal timing so that the bus never stops at a light
- spreading the stops to every TWO blocks
- extending the shuttle 'loop' to 20th street (therby providing service within two blocks to every person between 14th and 22nd.)

By: gash22

gash22 — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:25:00 +0000

I think upgrading the shuttle busses to streetcars would be good. Also whatever transit improvement gets put in, there needs to be level boarding, so that the bus does not have to stop and operate a wheelchair ramp, everytime someone in a wheelchair needs to use the bus. This creates huge bunches of busses so that they do not wind up running on a regular basis.

In regards to other blocks, part of fastracks is a 'Downtown Circulator' that will run on 17th/18th. The technology for that has yet to be determined, but i think an idea is to make 16th streetcars, and use the existing mall bus fleet to serve the downtown circulator loop.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:26:00 +0000

In response to 4/04/2008 04:11:00 PM above – The idea of bringing in a retail proprietor is excellent. I also like people's suggestions regarding converting the rubber-tired shuttles to a streetcar or even cable car.
Regarding bringing in a retail expert, the time is well overdue – however, the city did try this once before after it became apparent that Cherry Creek was sucking the liefe out of downtown retail. Taubman was approach, but came up with a scheme that would have replaced much of the lower downtown portion of 16th street for blocks with internal focused megamall structures. We're fortunate that that did not happen. But in this era of Belmars, etc. I agree that a major retail company is what downtown needs to reinvent its role in the region's retail niche. There are downtown's all across the county that are in much worse shape than downtown Denver – but they continue to have a thriving mix of retail in there core. Frankly, the retail in downtown is an embarassment to the city.
And I like the comments above about going with quality design and materials as 16th Street is revitalized.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:59:00 +0000

This article is written well, but it's important to add that the mall is failing to thrive. It may be an improvement over 25 years ago. It does make a good impression on visitors from Kansas City or Cheyenne. But the vacancy rate still is incredibly high. Wasn't 16th Street originally served not by streetcars, but by cable cars? They would require a substantial investment, but cable cars would be a draw for tourists and locals — and, subsequently, tenants for these empty spaces.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:43:00 +0000

Studies are worthless without money to back up the ideas brought out…… waste of time if you ask me

By: toast2042

toast2042 — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:37:00 +0000

Streetcars on 16th would make a lot of sense - the mall shuttles get packed at times and being able to link a second car onto the first for the same labor and negligible additional operating expense would be ideal.

Also, adding shuttles or trolleys in a loop around 17th, Broadway, 15th and Wazee would make them more attractive and accessible.

I agree with the idea posted above of making the civic center bus station the hub of a new streetcar system, with lines down Colfax and Broadway/Lincoln at the least, and preferably up and down Speer to Cherry Creek and Highland as well. Plus anywhere else people think would be useful. Can someone draw up a map real quick for posting with an initial streetcar plan? That'd be sweet.

Sadly the capital costs required for such a build-out would be near politically impossible. :sigh: