This is not a new idea with me, of course. I’m just repeating here the mantra of change we’ve heard from so many urban Denverites for many years now: we need a Downtown Denver department store.
We used to have in Downtown a May D&F, J.C. Penney, Joslins, the Denver, and perhaps a few other retailers that would qualify as department stores as we’ve traditionally known them. They are now all gone from Downtown. In return, we have Cherry Creek, a phenomenal retail district that is in the upper echelon of urban retail centers in the United States. But given the proximity of Cherry Creek to Downtown, it is unlikely that we will see a traditional department store in Downtown any time soon.
However, department stores that take the form of a mass merchandiser like Target—that’s another story. In fact, I’d rather see a Target in Downtown Denver than a Macy’s or whatever anyway, since Target sells a far greater range of household and personal goods than a Macy’s or a Penneys. As I mentioned in my post on streetcars, approximately 205,000 people, including me, live within a three-mile radius of the intersection of Broadway and Colfax, yet in order to go to the closest Target, we all have to go to Glendale or to Edgewater—different municipalities! That’s just not right. There is the Kmart on South Broadway, but that’s almost three miles from Downtown and I’m not a big fan of Kmart anyway.
You may recall that a developer once had plans for an urban Target on Block 162, but the deal fell through because the developer couldn’t assemble the land. Since then, I’ve heard a few rumors about a possible urban Target in Downtown Denver here or there, but so far they’ve never amounted to anything. I’ve also heard that Target Corporation itself has Denver at the top of its list for an urban store, but Target doesn’t develop their own stores; we need a local developer to take on the challenge of finding the right site and getting the project built—then Target will come.
Any Downtown Target should have, to maximize the utility of the land, some kind of tower above it, whether it’s housing or office or whatever. That will further complicate putting the deal together for the developer, but it’s the right thing to do in the long run. A Target in Downtown Denver should be located within a block or so of the 16th Street Mall to allow for Downtown workers and residents to get to it conveniently via the mall shuttle. A Target would certainly have underground or structured parking, but it should be located as close to public transit as possible.
Finally, I bet a bunch of you out there are going to post a comment to this blog saying we need a Downtown grocery store too. Hold your horses… you’ll get your chance in #5.
Since 2/3 of Block 162 is assembled under one owner, and the owner apparently has some big plans for the site, do you see Target coming back? It would still be one of the best sites in downtown, and a big booster to 15th street revitalization.
I always thought a great spot would be near (or on) block 176, which is next to the Broadway/Lincoln light rail station on Welton. It would eat up a lot of bare parking lots and would be easier to access via car (which a lot of people would still do). It could still be urban and for those wanting to shop via public transport, then they could take the light rail. Plus, if a street car would ever be installed on Broadway, that's even better! This location would also be closer to all the residents in Uptown, which would be a big market for them.
As for proximity to 16th street mall, well it's still close, but I don't see too many people utilizing a mall ride to carry shopping bags, etc.. Regardless, I would support a DT Target wherever it would be.
Bring back Woolworths. A downtown without the opportunity to buy a parakeet is no downtown at all…..
Keep in mind the downtown Minneapolis store received @$70 million in subsidies. At a time when the city is facing closing rec centers, libraries, the school district again raising taxes because they're hurting for money do we really want to put resources into a store that's essentially a Wal-mart with red lipstick?
And if we go down that path will we be like other cities that have trouble with retail downtown? For example, downtown St. Paul has nearly none. THey've thrown a lot of money at a few projects that haven't panned out. And over those decades they've been sinking a lot of money into the downtown Macy's (the old Daytons) just to keep it open. Always the talk is that it'll spur retail around it and downtown. It hasn't happened in my lifetime. Is this the path we want our city going down?
Man we need to make a big long street similar to Newbury in Boston. They have all kinds of cool stores. Zarah's, Kenneth Cole, H&M, Reiss London. Its not like everyone can afford this but these are international stores and its cool to have access to them.
its going too be hard to get a department store dt,, departments store are dying aross the country- target may be the best hope- and even they are not doing that great money wise.
construction update…WPM Construction upgraded from a single-wide construction trailer to a double-wide on site at 14th & Stout. Looks like they really are going vertical with their building…why else do you invest in a double-wide?
I think the block with the old California Food Court would be perfect. They could build over the adjacent parking lot as well.
It's apparent that the retail experience in America is undergoing a huge transformation as people change the way they "consume" goods. For one, malls are dying across the country – intersting video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHyRink9qVw
Why? I think it's a mix of economics, consumer tastes, and the general cultural void associated with driving to the edge of suburbia in order to make all your commerce decisions.
That said, people will continue to buy things so how will retailers reach them? I would imagine the ability to package a group of consumer options into a location, such as entertainment, restaurants, grocery, and a mix of specialty stores will draw people to an area and entice them to spend their money. However,a store by itself is not a destination. Therefore, it needs to be supplemented with cultural aspects to make people want to be there, like a public square, artwork, amphitheaters, fountains, interesting architecture, etc.. A city can offer more cultural opportunities than suburbia so, in that regard, Denver should promote these types of things.
more density of housing…all these problems will be solved.
a much better use of $70mm in subsidies would be an equity loan fund for developers that build market / affordable homes and apartments in the center.
if the project makes sense than a bank will provide the non-equity financing
we need zoning to encourage independent businesses. i have never seen a vibrant downtown based around a big box.
I lived in downtown Denver for years. One thing that always bothered me about living downtown was having to take trips away from downtown when I needed some groceries or a simple household item. It just seemed backwards. Downtown itself is not any kind of "neighborhood" by any means; and not having these simple things is a big reason. A Target and a grocery store would change EVERYTHING.
I was just talking about this very idea for the past couple of days. I was acutally talking about a Best Buy, but a Target sounds even better. I'm amazed there are virtually no retail stores in the downtown area. The coustumer base is there and a variety store would truly benefit the area. Mazel Tov.
I'm always amazed when I read that Downtown Denver has little or no retail! No, it doesn't have big box stores, but it has plenty of smaller, lesser known chains and independents. Open your eyes and your minds. Quit thinking in terms of mass-merchandising or one-stop shopping at Wal-Mart or Best Buy or even King Soopers. I shop downtown (16th Street, Pavillions, Larimer Street, etc.) and find plenty of things to buy for yourself, your home, your work, your pets, friends and family. Look and walk around, investigate. Is it because there are so many guys on this blog and they are not the type of shoppers who usually just wander around to shop but want to get in and out fast?
Yes, Dowtown Denver could use more retail and an urban Target (and major grocery store) would be great, but don't wait until they arrive to find out what else is available in Downtown/central Denver.
Seattle has a 7-level building that has a Best Buy and Ross store on the first floor and a Target on the upper floors (the Target is 2 levels). There is parking attached to every level. I thought it was a neat design for conserving space. There's a similar buidling south of downtown that contains several stores like Sears, Office Depot, etc.
This is a very good reason why downtown looses ground against central denver. Lack of transit makes shopping downtown inconvenient, dragging the car downtown if you don't live there is a pain.
Central Denver in comparison is so easy. The strength of central denver IS the reason why downtown even exits as any kind of neighborhood today. Its the tail wagging the dog effect.
I don't think we need a target downtown. We need more smaller retail can open. Death to food courts and indoor malls.
Target announces green urban store in Pittsburgh's East Liberty neighborhood with new special design considerations:
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2008/12/01/daily24.html?ana=from_rss
Incentives provided through TIF
I've been told that the super target in Glendale does the most volume of any store in the nation, not just the state. I've got to believe the demand and critical mass are already in place, that's probably why dt Denver is a top priority for Target. And I've also got to believe that a cool, urban store wrapped into a dense, mixed development w/ (hate to say it – adequate parking) would draw all the people from Cap Hill, Curtis Park, Highland, Baker and Uptown. Small idny retail is great when you live a block away and need a great cut of meat or a bottle of wine, but not when you live 2 miles away and need a piece of furniture.
In addition to the several thousand people living in the CBD or nearby, I've got to believe the surrounding neighborhoods would frequently use a store like this. But in addition, there are thousands of daily commuters that would likely "shop" at this store on their lunchbreaks or before they head home. Plus, all the people staying at hotels for conventions, etc.. would utilize the store for their convenience. In other words, the total consumer potential is a lot higher than just the number of people "living" nearby – especially when there is virtually no competition.
This would be a great opportunity for the city to be progressive and actively seek out a developer to push this concept through. Perhaps the city could design the future "Circulator" around a proposed property in a fashion that maximizes customers' access to the store.
I gurantee if something like this would happen, it would act as a huge catalyst to spur other development projects.
Please Denver: Push over that first Domino..!
"Man we need to make a big long street similar to Newbury in Boston. They have all kinds of cool stores. Zarah's, Kenneth Cole, H&M, Reiss London. Its not like everyone can afford this but these are international stores and its cool to have access to them."
That would be Larimer street downtown had we not literally leveled it in between 15th and 20th. Now, we have blank walls created by office and residential towers there. (Even the tabor center, an enclosed mall, lends a blank wall to Larimer Street).
One of my great hopes for Denver's future is the we bridge the gap with some anchor retail where 16th Street and Larimer instersect and create a second retail axis downtown. (The first being the 16th st mall). It will help strengthen the fledgling retail on upper Larimer north of 20th as well.
By the way, I've had some technical issues and haven't been able to publish a new blog post in the past day or so. I'm working on it.
Ken
It's a mistake to think of urban Targets as "WalMart with red lip stick". Urban department stores make urban living much easier, and are therefore worth their weight in environmentally friendly gold. Talk tends to center on Target because Target has become pretty good at building urban stores. We have a couple in the DC area and they are great. Personally, I'd kill to replace my neighborhood's Macy's with a Target in the same building.
Is there any "urban" Walmarts in the country? If there were, I might cut them a break. But it seems that their only policy is to open big lot stores on the edge of small towns that inevetably kills local retail and, by extension, the town itself..
Late to the party, as usual…
I think we need to stop using the term "department store." The idea of the department store started dying in 1962, the year Sam Walton opened the first Wal-Mart Discount City, the Kresge Corporation opened the first Kmart, and the Dayton-Hudson Corporation opened the first Target. Dillard's will likely soon be a thing of the past, and Macy's is likely to be suffering a severe downsizing in the not too distant future, because there are more Macy's locations than their business can support.
Discount stores are where America shops now (when it's not buying things online), and a discount store is sorely needed downtown.
Historical tidbits: in addition to the stores that were downtown as recently as the 1970s, 80s and very early 90s (May-D&F, the Denver, J.C. Penney, Joslins, Neusteter's, Joseph Magnin), downtown Denver also had these stores in its more distant past:
The Golden Eagle (16th & Lawrence–where Writer Square is now; went out of business twice, in the mid 30s and in 1941)
Daniels & Fisher (where Tabor Center is now; bought by the May Company when they moved uptown in the late 1950s)
The May Company (where Chili's Too is now, 16th & Champa).
A.T. Lewis & Son (16th & Stout; went out during the Great Depression)
Gano-Downs (16th & Stout; bought by a Hawaiian company in the early 1970s, subsequently downsized and moved)
Appel's Big Store (16th & Larimer–where Writer Square's office tower is now; went out of business about a century ago)
Skinner Brothers & Wright (16th & Lawrence, opposite Golden Eagle and D&F; bought by May Company in the 1890s)
The Fair (the location escapes me)
Colorado Dry Goods (16th & California)
And, as we know thanks to Ken's work to save the building:
Steel's Department Store (16th & Welton)
With a few exceptions, these were locally owned. And those were just the multi-floor department stores–there were scores of smaller stores selling everything you could imagine…and you could buy groceries at the Loop Market (where the Four Seasons is rising) or earlier, at Wolfe Londoner's on Lawrence Street.
Hoping for those days to return is, unfortunately, an unfruitful exercise in nostalgia. Let's work on Target.
–historymystery
^
WalMart and Target *are* department stores. They feature discounted prices and generally operate with less expensive to run business model, but the pitch is essentially the same as it always was.