It’s certainly good news that the Pavilions has been purchased by a local group and that they plan to invest quite a bit of money into the complex. But, if we really want to turn the Pavilions around into a thriving retail center, let’s slap up a couple of 40-story towers with a ground-floor Macy’s on those ugly parking lots behind the Pavilions. That’ll do the trick. Seriously, with Makovsky working on something big for Block 162 and with Brookfield now in control of both of the lots behind the Pavilions, the long-term prospects for that area are exciting. Since one of the biggest barriers to development in Downtown is blocks with fractured ownership by dysfunctional families, having those three large development sites under the ownership of proven developers is a huge accomplishment.
They better leave Jazz @ Jacks or I swear I'll kill somebody. Other than that I have to say that I don't really care for what stands at this place right now. It seems like a great location for a Kenneth Cole, Barneys or Armani. None of that stuff is there and its TRUE, if you were blindfolded into this area you wouldn't feel like you were anywhere different. They need to get it going in that area.
I loves me some development.
I read recently that the macy's over at cherry creek is turning into the states first bloomingdales… maybe they'd be interested in setting up shop downtown since there isn't really any more spots in cherry creek for a macy's
They're planning something that you find in any "mall USA"? What does that mean exactly? And that means no big department stores like Macy's in the back, doesn't it? C'est la vie.
While I'm glad the Gart family is buying Pavilions, their track record (I'm referring to the former food court in the California Mall) has been less than encouraging. The food court has been empty ever since they closed it in an effort to woo a company to use the space for offices. And I'm also concerned about the Pavilions retailers, particularly Virgin. Virgin is closing stores left and right (even in Manhattan) and with the Denver store's lease expiring soon, I'm thinking that's going to be a huge empty space to fill (and how long has it been since the former Wolfgang Puck space has remained empty)?
Enough pessimism. I'll hope for the best because, as we all know, downtown Denver retail needs all the help it can get.
This is great news. I presume the new escalators will replace the old ones, at least those on the ground floor. That will make the spaces behind them more visible. I'd love to know where Anon 8:57 read the news about Bloomie's at Cherry Creek. If true, great. Not only is there no room to put a 5th anchor at that mall, if they did they'd have to re-negotiate with the city and neighborhood groups, as the mall's square footage is capped at a certain level, and I think when they added on to the old L&T to make Nordstrom, they reached it. And yes, that would make a downtown Macy's a bit more likely. However, Macy's is no friend to downtowns generally, as May (the owner of Foley's, bought by Macy's a few years ago, and known before 1993 in Denver as May D&F) was not either. It was May that closed the two main anchors of 16th Street, May D&F and the Denver, in 1993 and 1987 respectively. There was an article in the Miami Herald the other day, speculating on whether Macy's will stay in downtown Miami; it could go either way, and from the article I got the impression that Macy's isn't spending a lot of money on that store (the same pattern May had before it closed May D&F). The department store is a fading concept, unfortunately, and Macy's days as a large, full-line, middle class department store are numbered, thanks to discount stores, specialty stores, single-floor non-mall stores like Kohl's, and the Internet (same thing is true of Dillard's). They're better off opening Bloomingdale's and concentrating on the higher end.
This part of the mall/downtown needs serious attention. It is borderline scary at times.
No Ken, we don't need a 'couple of
40 story towers'. We need a sleek beautiful 65 to 80 story tower.
Virgin Records is leaving for sure at the end of their lease this year. Gart paid way too much for this property. The pavilions is and always will be a total ham sandwich.
Personally, I think downtown would be better off with an "urban" Target, like was proposed, to my knowledge, a few years back but didn't get anywhere because of difficulties discussed previously here. A store like that provides the more mundane needs of residents, workers, and tourists downtown (darn, I forgot my swimsuit, running shoes, shorts, favorite perfume, etc.), but can also provide a few select luxuries and discretionary items (throw pillows, accent tables, cookware, baby shower gift, etc.), at least within the budgets of many folks that would find themselves downtown and in need of a conveniently located "general" store.
That would be great if they turn the Cherry Creek Macys into a Bloomingdales and move Macys downtown. Even though I spend my money on other things than expensive clothes, Cherry Creek would be even more so at the top echelon of shopping centers in the country. A more middle class store, like Macys or Dillards, and even a Target would serve the day to day needs of downtown residents and workers. All they would really need to thrive is more and more downtown residential development. The site of the data storage building at the corner of 15th and Champa would be good for a Target with apartments/condominiums above it and filling up the adjacent parking lot at 15th and Stout (I think) and the lot across Champa including that totally ghetto pawn shop on 15th. Leave Sam's #3 though. I think its googie architecture adds to the architectural variety downtown and Sam's is a great casual place for families to eat inexpensively before going to the DCPA, etc. We also need to start a campaign to get the Dikeau's (spelling?) to either renovate the California building on 16th or sell it to someone who will. The building is looking worse and worse. Has any one heard anything about the Cottrell's building? I can't believe that there isn't anyone seriously interested in redeveloping that site, especially now that the Steel Building across the street renovated and, hopefully, with top shelf tenants.
Corey
ANON 7:29!!! I LOVE YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE THAT THINKS THAT DENVER NEEDS A BARNEYS!
Now that I'm considered crazy loner in my ideas, I also think that some highend stores, Gucci, Prada, Armani, D&G should move in. Not only is there not a D&G outside of the coasts, I think we have the market for it!
We need to make 16th like a Newbury, 5th, or Michigan Avenue of the other great American cities!
Tallfreak…two 40 story towers would do just fine at that location…something tells me Evan Makovsky is in the process of creating your sleek beautiful 65 to 80 story tower on his plot of land!
Oops, I called it the "California" building. I meant to say the "Colorado" building. You know, the Victorian building that was remodeled in the 30's with Art Deco elements that has the Jamba Juice. It would make a nice boutique hotel, lofts, or office space.
Corey
Corey wrote: "The site of the data storage building at the corner of 15th and Champa would be good for a Target with apartments/condominiums above it . . ."
What is going on with that data storage building (the former back end of Woolworth's)? I noticed today, it looks like they're putting windows in, on the second story level, on the 15th Street side.
If it is true that Virgin is leaving, I think the location would be great for the Office Depot that is getting the boot to make room for the new W Hotel. (Hopefully) 😉
no doubt kcollins, i love you back. After all the development of these high priced condos, I'm sure Denver could support some high end stores. You look at the KC at the mills mall and it does pretty good considering the fact that they still charge just an arm for their outlet apparel. I'm hoping the Fontius oops i mean Sage building, considers having something like this. We need a Reiss and H&M
Christopher, I hope your not teasing me. If I remember right, Klipp is Evan almighty's Architect. We need him to switch to the guy at Fentress's office who did the Bell Tower. I would love to see him(her?)design a new tallest for Denver. Yes a couple of 40 story buildings behind Pavilions would be great if they are well designed. I just think the skyline would look better with something other than another 30-40 story skyscraper.
I would love to have an H&M downtown
16th Street has clearly reached the point where it needs a department store. I still think Target would be ideal, but Macy's would be OK in a pinch.
I agree with Tallfreak! Downtown needs a skyline transformer in those empty parking lots behind. Of course Brookfield is probably holding out for the other side of this years election. Hey if Nashville can build a 75 story scraper WTF it's time for Denver to ball up to the bar with a new building that ranks with other business competitive metros.
Downtown definitely needs a quality department store (WITH grocery), as well as a few mid- and high-end clothing stores. Beyond that: why on earth is everyone clamoring for a whole bunch of other chain stores to come in? Are you seriously going to shop there all the time? No? Know anyone else who would come to Downtown to do so? Besides that, the great homogenization of America has run roughshod for too long. Enough.
I gotta tell ya: I HATE Pavillions. It positively creeps me out, and I'm annoyed that the escalators to the third story are specifically designed to make you walk by extra shops, and that its elevators are too slow/small. And so on. I'd be quite happy to see the whole thing burn down so we can start over.
(Well, okay, not burn–scraped off.)
Tallfreak…I'm not teasting…read the article from Westword about the project. With comments from Makovsky,like "I wouldn't want anything simple, that would be boring!" and…
"Makovsky's friends and colleagues say it will be the centerpiece of his career." and…
"What we are looking for is a marker on the skyline that announces this is a center of downtown," says prominent Denver architect Brian Klipp, who's helping Makovsky develop a master plan for the site. "I see this as an opportunity to invent something new. I think Evan's vision is perfectly aligned for that."
So he already has an architect. However, given Mr. Makovsky's portfolio and these comments…something big is in the works…It would have to be if its going to be the centerpiece of his career!
I can't wait until November when the ULI comes and a plan is revealed.
I'll take 2 40 story towers and one less block of parking over one 80 story tower and a remaining block of parking. Heck, I'll take 10 8-10 story buildings that eat up 8 more lots than 2 fifty story buildings. Skyscrapers may help the distant view but I'd rather walk by buildings on the street downtown where I actually spend my day.
What they need to do is build a signature tower and convert the pavilions to the complementary retail part of the tower. With all the upper income people moving into the new high end condos, and money makers in all the new office buildings, this is justified. The pavilions should be turned into something like Roppongi Hills in Tokyo… http://roppongihills.com/en/
I think a Wendy's – Old fashioned Hamburgers would be perfect. That and a Bass Pro Shop. Plus they should try to land a strip club! And a liqueur sto' too! A Motel 6 might even be nice there in the Pavilions. Heck, that would be everything I need to live – I could live there! This is great news!!!
Dirk, get your nose out of the Douglas Adams for a second and do a little research on these stores. These aren't just any chains, they're upscale fashion in high profile cities like NY, LA, Chicago, London, Miami and Paris. These aren't Old Navy's or GAP outlet stores. I prefer you not call these "other chains". However, I feel you on the pavilions but only downtown. If you go to Miami/Ft Lauderdale, SD, LA or Tampa/Clearwater they have Pavilions but they are typically on the beach and not downtown. However, if you go to Ybor City in Tampa, they have Pavilions there and it's pretty cool. I think eventually a few one level pavilions would be cool on the outskirts of downtown Denver but certainly not in downtown Denver.
I would SOOO much rather see many, many more 20 to 30 story buildings in Denver than a 75 story building. Granted, it does nothing for the skyling, but it would get rid of many more parking lots and create a greater density beyond 17th street. Look at DC – not a single building over 14 or so stories, but what a fantastic city to walk around in. Memphis is hardly the ideal here. I mean, you can build the world's tallest building in Dubai, it's still a piece of crap town to walk around in.
Just sayin'.
I should have said, "Preach it Anon 10:13!"
Pavillions would be perfect for…
– Apple store!!!
– H&M on two levels.
– Barney's or even a Co-op.
– Sephora as there is only one in Park Meadows today.
Douglas Adams obviously does not know what a fashion house is…Considering there are only 9 Prada stores in the US, 0 Hermes stores in our region, and 13 Giorgio Armani stores, I'm not too worried that Denver is going to look like a homogonized American City; if anything, the stores would serve as an infusion of culture.
haute couture vs. the gap
yea they're totally comparable…
word kc
i meant two level pavillions up there folks
So I was thinking…You know what would be great for this area? A restaurant by say…Emril…Or Bobby Flay…I think these would do far better than Wolfgang Puck. You know…food people would actually eat! Maybe Giada, just because she's so attractive…ha ha
hermes coming to CCN soon
LOL. I just moved here from New York and I WISH there were enough people wearing haute couture, but sadly, most everyone seems pretty happy in North Face, Columbia or Paragon. I would just be happy if men started wearing clothes that weren't three sizes to big for them, and can we retire the polo shirts at work?
and just to add to my last comment, i'm not passing judgement Denver! My high fashion is Banana Republic, and since the Pavilions has that – I have no complaints.
🙂
That's an interesting observation 12:21. How long did it take you to realize the outdoorsy aspect of Colorado's culture had an effect on the way people dress in the commercial center of our state?
christopher I lived in Orlando and they had an Emrils there, however Orlando still sucked and the food there at his restaurant wasn't that great. Keep brainstorming though I like your enthusiasm.
Anon 9:51 nailed a pretty solid line up (although john & KC are even more bold in their haute coutoure dreams)… but you can have the pavilions, I'd like to see it up and down 16th St.
I think anon 6:29 is my buddy Kev?
just a few observations…
I hate that big ugly blank wall on the back side of Pavilions as much as the rest of you. I also stand up and cheer every time a surface parking lot is scraped for a new building, regardless of how tall it is. But a 65 to 80 story would look great on Denver's skyline. And 17th street is loaded with 30+ story rectangular showboxes set on end. I would love to see something taller with a different shape. However, the most important aspect of any new building downtown is not it's height or shape, but how it interacts with the street. How it contributes to a vibrant lively downtown that all of us crazies who comment here want to see.
I find it interesting how these various discussions of fashion stores and building height managed to get as many posts as the bell tower comment post.
The amount of investment along the upper end of 16th Street is impressive. Sheraton is spending 70 million to completely renovate the hotel they recently purchased, Makovsky restoration of the Steel building and redevelopment of the lots along 15th, and now major improvements of the Pavilions. It is all very encouraging.
1:58…Well maybe we'll pass on Emril..but i ate at Bobby Flay's Mesa Grill in Vegas…awesome food and an awesome looking restaurant
Ps..John…its all about priorities! Ha
Anon 6:29 you are on to something there. Bass Pro Shop, Motel 6 and a strip club in Pavilions. The land behind could be downtown's first trailor park.
How about a spot could be the new TV studio for Conan O'Brien when he moves from New York after he's the new Leno. Now that would be fun, haha.
Conan in Denver would be cooler than a Virgin Record Store…. but bring Wax Trax or Twist and Shout in a spot, better selection anyways
Good news… and PLEASE- Denver needs more fine dining restaurants. I would take one over a high fashion store anyday. (although they are important as well) We do not have enough good restaurants per capita compared to other cities! c'mon!
you know what I think would look great on that parking lot behind the Pavillions, One development between the two blocks – it would be great for a "supertall 75+ story" but it really doesn't have to be, but it should straddle Glenarm with that street passing underneath. Sort of like the Trango Tower was supposed to be, a mixed use with offices and residentces and retail on the first level or two. Also it would be great if they can provide a second or third level passage to the Pavillions.
We don't have enough good restaurants? Are you kidding? I love food and eating–I date a chef–but there are many excellent options around town for fine dining. Potege, Z cuisine, Rioja, Bistro Vendome, Sasa, Opus, L'Atelier, Fruition, Mizuna, and numerous others offer excellent, sometimes inspired, cuisine. Add to that the huge number of ethnic and specialty restaurants, and this is a food lover's paradise. Or do you simply mean fine dining in the Brown Palace/Broadmoor sense, which is many things, but not inspired, interesting, or prone to a wonderful dining experience? Those places feel like a mix of funeral home and religious service, and I could do without more of this "fine dining" All pretense and no delivery.
I was kind of thinking the same thing anon 3:11 but i didn't have the cajones to come out and defend. I can't even afford to try all of these restaurants in downtown so I'm way too behind to be bitching. how many people in this message board community really fine dine so excessively that they can't be satisfied with what we have?